Minutes of meeting of SHCN 13 Dec. 2008 held in Milngavie C.E. Centre.


In Attendance:

Robert Cumming (chair)

Malcolm Allan

Lambert Sinclair

John Winton

Ruth Winton

Alastair Glen

Eileen Gorie

Ken Barr

Patrick Trust

Evelyn Hide

Bill Lawrie

James Sandeman

Julie McAnulty

Margaret Watt

Jean Turner

David Smith


1)      Apologies:

Evelyn McKechnie

George Venters

Margaret Hinds


2)      Minutes of Meeting of 11 Oct. 2008

These were accepted on a proposal by James Sandeman and seconded by John



3)Matters arising from the above minutes:


RC stated that Think Tank Reform Scotland gives a daily political  media  summary

Can be subscribed to from “reform scotland” in Google and entering e-mail address.


Re Stobhill and overnight beds. Capital will be made available under PFI .

GPass- Nicola Sturgeon stated that this will continue.

Chairman’s honorarium: The chairman indicated that he felt that the figure of £150 as agreed at the previous meeting, was greater than he wished to accept.

An amended figure of £100 was proposed by Lambert Sinclair and seconded by Margaret Watt.  This was agreed unanimously and accepted by the chairman.


4)      Treasurer’s Report:


Balance at last meeting                = £994.76

Bank interest                                 =£3.24


Expenses                                        = Nil ( but see later)*

Balance at bank                             = £998.00

A cheque was presented to the chairman for £100 as the honorarium indicated under (3) ‘matters arising’. Two hall lets were outstanding and when this is taken into account leaves a balance of £848.


5)      Discussion following meeting with Nicola Sturgeon.


Minutes of this meeting had been produced by James Sandeman and had been circulated by e mail in advance of the meeting in Milngavie.

RC reported on the continuation of chemotherapy services at the Vale of Leven and that a nurse led out patient service would be provided at the Stobhill ACAD unit.

NS had requested further examples of lack of information being provided to monitoring groups by NHSGGC.

JS stated that two or three services had not been sustained at Victoria Infirmary but this had not been discussed by the chair of the south monitoring group in his discussion with NS.

Rehab:   JT/MW intend to pay a further visit to Castle Craig.

Patient Information: PT commented that ACADs will be paperless and that consultants are concerned that they will not have patients’ case notes in front of them.

Vale of Leven: EG has asked Allyson Pollock to look at Dodd’s report.

PT and JT observed that, although there are adequate anaesthetists on stream there are insufficient training places.

PT reported that 95% of patients at the Vale could be supported without a consultant anaesthetist at the hospital. He also pointed out the difficulty in getting places for patients from Dumbarton to the St Margaret’s Hospice in Clydebank. This was noted by MW in particular.

There will be four palliative care beds at the Vale.


Mental Healthcare in Lanarkshire:

Information had been circulated in advance by JMcA. who spoke to the notes.


BECAD. AG quoted NS that it “had not been ruled out as a model” No indication as to why a report on the status of the unit had been delayed.


C.difficile in Fife:

JW had used the Freedom of Information Act to find out number of single bedded accommodation and space between beds had been planned for.

He is also trying to establish more information about the number of patients registered to receive dental treatment in Fife as there is no requirement for dental practitioners to provide details of the number of private patients in their practices.

Stracathro:  Future still unknown. NHSFife reported to be struggling to send sufficient numbers of patients to meet contract obligations.  Suggestion that it may be only functioning at 80% of capacity, but definite figures unknown.


6)      Response to Consultation Documents :


a)      Changes to Eligibility Criteria for Providers of Primary Medical Services:

Delegates agreed with the proposals as set out in the consultation document and RC will respond on behalf of SHCN.  Applications for a contract should include a medical practitioner.

MA has sent an individual response.


b)      Patients Rights Bill


General agreement with the consultation document and RC will respond by 16 January 2009.

KB noted that there was no mention of response to emergences under ‘access’.


c)      European Commission’s Proposals re involvement of private sector in provision of health care.


If the information contained within the report by Allyson Pollock is put into effect it could undermine the policies of the provision of healthcare by the Scottish government.

RC will write NS drawing attention to the proposals and to ask if she agrees with the observations of AP. Will also write MEP’s to establish consultation timing.

JMcA stated that there are proposals to set up a European database of patient information.

JT and MW also suggested contacting Baroness Greengross (European Rights Commissioner) re database.


7)      Reports from Groups:

JW had circulated Fife’s report in advance. He commented that out of the 14 health boards in Scotland, only NHSFife had supported the proposal to have members elected to health boards.

He questioned why the figure of £150m for the new hospital in Fife quoted three years ago remains unchanged.  Are bed numbers to remain as those on which the figure was based?


8)      Co-Payments


In a draft statement issued by NS she proposes that the ban on patients receiving treatment within the NHS while paying for part of that treatment e.g. drugs, will be lifted.

Despite the release of this statement, a Consultation Document has been issued with response to be submitted by 12 January 2009.

Delegates discussed the principle outlined without reaching a consensus.  Those who wish to respond will do so on an individual basis but no response will be issued on behalf of SHCN.


9)      Margo McDonald MSP’s Bill—Physician Assisted Suicide.


This had been included in the agenda at the request of MH.  As she had been unable to attend and to speak to the proposals it was decided to hold this over until the next meeting.


10)  AOCB:


KB asked if there was an audit of GPs in Scotland.

PT replied that GPs are requested to report significant incidents on a voluntary basis.

DS drew attention to the fact that any death in Scotland in a hospital ward following surgery is subject to audit—a system unique to Scotland.


Access to patients’ existing medication following admission to hospital and continuation of treatment based on this remains a problem yet to be resolved.


During the course of the meeting, Robert was presented with a poinsettia plant and card to convey to Anne on behalf of those present in appreciation of the excellent buffet which she, along with Robert, provide whenever we meet at Milngavie.

This is greatly appreciated.  Delegates were sorry that Anne had been unable to attend on this occasion due to an indisposition but were impressed with the way in which the chairman coped with the catering arrangements in addition to his usual duties.



DATE OF NEXT MEETING: Saturday 14 February 2009 at Milngavie C.E. Centre 1 pm for 1.30 pm


Meeting closed at 4.10 pm




Malcolm Allan

18 December 2008